WIB After Dark
On March 3, 2022 Women In Business had a workshop surrounding equity, diversity and inclusion. While there was much to gain from this event, I also felt it provided a unique opportunity to continue the conversation beyond an organized setting. This discussion is incredibly important, and so I interviewed 3 of our members, Riana, Joyce, and Pranjal, to share their perspectives with all of us, and delve deeper into the topic!
What does full diversity and inclusion look like to you?
Joyce broke down full diversity and inclusion into two main definitions.
Diversity: Representation/makeup of an organization and the people that you surround yourself with.
Inclusion: The steps and results of how you value and integrate the voices of those surrounding yourself, especially those with different backgrounds into your own life.
“Given those two definitions, full inclusivity and diversity would then be placing equal value to the voices you surround yourself with, and ensuring that you surround yourself with many individuals of different backgrounds and life experiences. This would in turn lead to learning and checking your privilege, and understanding other forms of discrimination that aren’t as talked about.”
“To be completely honest, I don’t think full inclusion or diversity is something that can be attained. Rather, the concept of full inclusion and diversity just seems extremely idealistic and unrealistic, specifically at this day and age. Because of deep rooted societal constructs, we’ve entrenched ourselves so far away from diversity and inclusion that it’s even rooted in our unconscious biases. Up until a couple of decades ago, gender constructs and gender roles were deeply rooted in our lifestyles and though we’ve been tackling that for a couple years, there is still so much more to uncover. We’re here trying to undo over 100 years of ethnocentrism, racism, sexism and ableism here, and it’s a large feat.”
In Riana’s perspective, “Diversity and inclusion means that we no longer design spaces and policies in an inclusive mindset but instead a universal mindset. When we design using inclusivity, we first have a default group that we primarily serve and then the "other" which one tries to include. For example, when we design accessible spaces for people with physical disabilities, we think of them as a minority. Having "minority" as the label denotes an image that this group's population is smaller, and that is where the problem begins. Many minority groups often come in millions and even billions of people, but they are considered the minority because they aren't the default group primarily served and listened to. Full inclusion means that people are significant enough to no longer be labeled as the "other" to include, but already be a part of that baseline assumption.”
Topics such as BLM and others are becoming more prominent. What good things have come out of those conversations for you?
For Pranjal, the most important thing that comes out of conversations surrounding minority groups is knowing that there is a problem and putting in the work to understand the problem. To her, the biggest thing somebody can do is have that conversation.
Additionally, Riana mentioned that “Things like BLM are significant because there have been more conversations in the workplace, and more emphasis on ED&I policies in organizations. It is now more socially unacceptable to refrain from being political on social media or exclude considering ED&I. This is forcing many people to critically think, take a stance, and have an opinion."
Joyce also added that “Positive things out of BLM and the conversations surrounding those topics include opening the conversation and bringing to light the severity of these issues and that things such as discrimination still exist and impact people to this day. I think it got us to understand that all that discrimination still exists and can take on the form of microagressions and can play into our biases as well.”
In addition, she mentioned that “During the #StopAsianHate campaign, it was sad but also comforting to know that other individuals who looked like me went through things that I thought only I had gone through. It really encouraged me to be more open with sharing things I used to feel shameful about and opened up a lot of conversations with other minorities. This event even made me cognizant and opened up conversations about microaggressions too. It was during conversations with other minorities during this time that I learned about the inequities visible minorities have when it comes to being hired, or included in different clubs based on what I looked like.”
What conversations do you think should be had that aren’t being had?
While acknowledging that there are certainly more, Joyce mentioned a few conversations she believes need to happen more:
How white feminism is oppressing the voice of other minorities. “How can you be an ally as a woman and not make the whole focus of discrimination in the workplace on gender? Though important, it’s important to stand up for all minorities and not levels of discrimination that just impact you.”
Using ED&I as a buzz word to seem as though organizations are doing social good. “The thing with buzz words is that they're often whatever is trendy, and once the trend dies down, people forget about them. However, ED&I is not just a trend; it's something that truly benefits many individuals. With ED&I being a buzzword, many organizations are just taking that word and slapping it onto their policies without showing any tangible results or any tangible measures. I think while it's good that organizations are more cognizant of ED&I as an issue, they should take it one step further and talk about their numbers and how they're measuring and tracking their progress with ED&I.”
Tokenism and affirmative action. “What is tokenism and why is it not great? How can someone navigate around tokenism? What is affirmative action? Why is affirmative action necessary?”
Joyce continued on to say that “I think there’s often the mindset, though unspoken, of why there are certain scholarships, or programs specifically for minorities. When I was younger, I used to wonder why some minorities were singled out and given that exclusive opportunity. Now that I’m older, I understand why those programs need to be in place, but I don’t think that everyone understands it.”
How can you support your friends who are a part of different minorities when things happen? “This might look like doing your research, not relying solely on your friends to educate you on discrimination/racism/ableism/etc.”
Microaggressions. “What constitutes a microaggression? How would you deal with a microaggression?”
Unconscious Biases. “We all know “not to be racist or be discriminatory” but understanding how those biases can play into everyday things in life, such as applying for jobs.”
Pranjal added that “No matter what the world tries to change and what changes happen, there will always be something in the back of their minds that is bugging them for a person of color. Bugging them that this is what a certain group of people thought of us once a time. No matter how much you try to reverse it it will be irreversible. Working towards reversing that mindset is something that needs to be had.”
Things that she believes everyone can be doing include:
Acknowledging and voicing the concern. “There are people in the world that think people of color are lesser than. Educating each other and understanding the ‘why’ is so important, because the people that we aren’t reaching are the people that don’t think everybody is equal”
Acknowledge one another's experiences. “Even for me, if somebody says that we aren’t equal I will quiet down because if you’re arguing then you’re not changing somebody's mindset. If you share your experiences people will loosen up and be more receptive to what you’re saying. Sometimes people just need to understand your point of view. Sometimes people think you’re just being selfish, but in reality it could change somebody’s perspective.”
Do you have any recommendations for resources for people to look at?
Riana’s recommendations:
Read opinion pieces from reputable sources!
There is a magazine called Overachievers written by Asian women. “I (as a Filipino woman) feel well represented in that group, and people are honest about their experiences there which offers a point of view of what Asian women go through.”
There is a podcast called Asian Boss Girl which discusses the experiences of Asian women who followed the typical corporate paths expected of them by their parents. They speak to their everyday perspectives, the inner turmoil they face, and what it's like navigating the world as an Asian woman.
Joyce’s recommendations:
Always check your sources. “When reading about ED&I, who is writing the article? What biases/ unconscious biases might they have?”
Like Riana, Joyce also recommends the student-led magazine called Overachievers Magazine. “Their articles were insightful and their opinions were interesting to listen to. That being said, they only represent one section of discrimination.”
Check out the National Collective of Women in Business! “They had a workshop a couple of weeks ago regarding ED&I within student-led clubs, and brought in helpful guest speakers.”
“Just look on Google; ask your friends what publications they read, find podcasts that can provide a different perspective too!”
An issue being brought to light is performative activism. What are your thoughts on performative activism and do you have advice for what individuals should do to go beyond that?
Pranjal: “It is difficult to distinguish from actual activism because you’re only seeing what people post on social media. The biggest thing with performative activism is that a lot of people don’t know how to properly show that they support a cause. For example, If the only thing you’ve done in 6 months is post a black square, then you’re not doing enough.”
“Social media isn’t everything. We can’t depend on it to know everybody's political views. Just because a person posts about one movement doesn’t mean they don’t care about others; just know you need to be educated internally. With performative activism, people educate themselves for everyone else and don’t actually have a connection with a lot of what is going on in the world. We can’t achieve change in the world if you’re not educating yourself so you can be more aware.”
“It's important to note that a lot of minorities feel like they don’t need to educate themselves about other minorities because they are going through their own experiences in some way but that isn’t the case - so many minorities or generation Z people of color are so focused on white people needing to educate themselves - they take that and they run with it. They aren’t the only group of people that need to educate themselves. Just because I am a person of color doesn’t mean I can be ignorant and choose to not take initiative on something. We are focused on other groups learning more that we forget to educate ourselves too.”
Joyce:
“I think social media is a huge factor as to why things blow up and how social issues become trends; social issues are not trends, they are real life problems. During social issues such as BLM, and Climate Change, though I appreciated that those social issues were highlighted and were spoken on more, I was disappointed at how popular infographics got, and how unreliable the information on some of those infographics were. When people started seeing them circulate the internet, I was on board at first. But when people saw how popular and successful those infographics were and began making their own (with the same information; just a different Canva design), it felt extremely performative. People were beginning to not care about the validity of the content in their infographics and only cared about its performance, if it was aesthetically pleasing, and if other people would share it. People even began to be shamed for not sharing infographics or showing the world what they were doing to combat social issues. And if you didn’t publicly donate, or post something on your personal feed that wasn’t related to the social movement, people would think you didn’t care about the social issue at hand.”
“During social issues that were directly related to myself, I’ll keep it short and sweet. It’s just important that you practice what you post. It felt extremely ingenuine when I saw people posting about StopAsianHate when I felt as though they constantly perpetuated microaggressions towards BIPOC.”
Joyce also gave some recommendations for how people can go beyond performative activism:
People should live by what they post and show the world. “If they post about living sustainably and axing fast fashion while shaming individuals who purchase from fast fashion, I don’t think they should be buying from companies such as Shein. If people post about BLM and how important it is to be inclusive and create more opportunities for Black communities, I hope that they would learn more on unconscious biases and support Black owners and amplify their voices. I think individuals (including myself) should constantly check our biases and really evaluate the way we carry ourselves.”
People should think more about what they post, consider their perspectives, and think about the level of privilege they come from. “For instance, when posting about fast fashion and condemning it, while praising thrifting, it is important to consider the implications of thrifting and starting up shops where you sell reworked thrifted clothing”
“It’s important to think critically about what you consume and the perspectives/biases that you have going into consuming that content”
People are driven emotionally on social media. “Don’t believe everything you read. Do your own research. Social media has algorithms that only allow you to see content that resonates with your views. It’s important to look elsewhere and diversify the content that you consume.”
Social issues are not trends. “Just because it’s not trendy anymore doesn’t mean that people aren’t still impacted.”
Riana:
“Because social issues trend, there is a cycle of trauma that comes with that. People are sharing and reposting pictures of others being assaulted, and the victims' loved ones might not want that information being shared. It speaks volumes - why can’t we believe people's stories? It's not good for us to be desensitized to this content. It should be shocking, but we're seeing it so many times that it will lead to desensitization. There was a surge of content of black men and women being murdered without trigger warnings prior to the content being shown. When we see videos, it's not necessarily urging people to take action, it's just getting people to have a reaction. It's not what their friends and families consented to. I hope we don't have to share these photos and videos to prove that people have been hurt. There needs to be a better way to show this. The conversation regarding hate crimes needs to be had in a safe space with lots of resources - there also are children on social media that don’t understand what the right information is.”
“Another thing that frustrates me is tokenism. It's difficult to talk about my experiences because there's an expectation of the answers they want me to say as a Filipino woman - like validating a statistic. Yes I might be a Filipino woman, but we can’t be painted with a monolithic brush.”
“I feel like I'm letting people's expectations down because I have to talk on behalf of the Filipino population. There is a lot of pressure in being a person from a minority group. I grew up working on my accent to get rid of it, in turn it made me the token Filipino to speak at events and answer questions as I could communicate and be easily understood. It feels great to advocate for a group, but it is also a lot of pressure. It feels like everything I do represents Filipinos as a whole. I am constantly being approached so that people can confirm what Filipino is and what it looks like. I find this is especially prevalent for immigrants who come to any western country because many first gen kids learn to speak and write English more fluently than their parents. This leads to these children having to then advocate for their parents and translate for them, leading to a cycle of dependence and forcing kids to grow up faster than normal. This sort of pressure didn't allow me a lot of room to explore my identity outside of being Filipino and an immigrant.”
“The best thing you can do for someone is to acknowledge their background and understand that their perspective is completely valid as it is theirs. It's also both a privilege and a lot of pressure to be chosen to speak for people who don't have a louder voice at the table. In the future, if you’re asking people to speak on their experience as a minority, ask for their consent and make it a safe space for them.”
What do you think organizations and groups should be doing to create tangible change?
Joyce:
Create goals and targets and be public and transparent about it!
Constantly ask for feedback from those who belong to minority groups around you
Constantly do your own research on how you can better support minorities
Unconscious bias training (from a diverse panel)
Take into consideration aspects of discrimination that might not necessarily apply to you.
Riana:
“Stay clear of relying solely on anonymous complaint forms. It puts the onus on the victim and makes it reactive instead of preventative. It can be traumatizing if organizations wait for something to happen before they do something”
“Be open about changing so that you’re not creating barriers for people. Organizations could list out possible reasons why people can’t join their club, for example: financial barriers, disabilities, language barriers.”
Pranjal:
You need to create change from the top down. “There's so many organizations that preach change but all of their executive teams are not diverse. How will people know that you care about diversity if they don’t see any representation of themselves?”
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To close out, Riana had some final words to share.
“Ultimately, the fight shouldn’t be between people. There are systems at work and larger forces at play that don’t help us make decisions on our own. Even the best of intentions can hurt the world and we aren’t always informed about it. The problem isn't at an individual level - there are larger forces at play and we make more of a difference when we work together.”