Women in Male Dominated Fields

Despite the many strides women have made in the workplace over the past few decades, there continue to be fields in which there are very few women. For this blog post, we wanted to feature an incredible woman who is making strides in the field of Investment Banking which has traditionally been (and continues to be) highly saturated with men. Lindsay Jones is an M&A Investment Banking Associate at Scotiabank and she is currently based in New York City. Lindsay grew up in St. Albert and started her career in Calgary working in the Oil and Gas sector. She has been a strong advocate for women empowerment and has started a mentorship program at Scotiabank as well. We are so excited to share her experience in Investment Banking and how she navigated being one of only a handful of women in her field with all of you and we hope you learn as much from her as we did!

Tell us a little bit more about yourself and what your job entails.

Contrary to what some people may think of when they hear the name investment banker, we do not work as an investment advisor or retail banker to the general public. We are better thought of as working in ‘corporate finance’. Because we work on the corporate side of finance, investment banking is part of the bank the general public doesn’t see when they walk into a bank. However, when a headline in the newspaper says a company acquired another (or a company like Apple raised $1 billion dollars in the stock market), you can assume that they did so with the help of an investment banker. Investment bankers provide financial advice to corporate and financial clients as it relates to M&A deals or raising money (debt or equity). M&A, which stands for mergers & acquisitions, focuses on providing advisory services to clients to help them evaluate transactions such as mergers, acquisitions, and divestitures (buy and sell decisions as the company grows or matures). A lot of an investment banker’s job is helping a client understand the value of something – how much is this asset / company worth? By helping them understand the valuation of an asset or company, clients are able to make an informed decision on how much to sell it for, buy it for, or how much money they can raise based on its cash flows. In contrast to a corporate banker, who works with the bank to make a loan to the client, investment bankers do not directly lend to or invest in our clients. Instead, we provide expertise and advice on transactions including: determining valuation; providing the client with market / industry overviews; coordinating / managing due diligence processes; liaising with other advisors and third-party consultants, advising on strategic approach to negotiations and acting as relationship managers to connect clients to other products groups within the bank. Full-service investment banks pride themselves on being able to assist clients with all financial needs so we work closely with other bank product groups (eg. with ECM and DCM teams (equity and debt capital market) to assist in financings). In broad process M&A, you can think of it as a bit of a bidding war where the seller wants to receive the highest price but the buyer wants to pay as little as possible. A buyer faces a dilemma: if they bid too low, they could be outbid by a competitor, but, if they bid too high, they can end up overpaying. In this scenario, and investment banker would determine a fair valuation range, assist in formulating a bid strategy, and provide views of competitive tensions within the process. There are also implications based on how a client structures a bid (similar to how a mortgage can help a new home owner buy a larger home by reducing the amount of money they need to have upfront, debt can help the acquisition of an asset – in both cases tradeoffs must be assessed on how much debt (and therefore interest payments on the debt) is optimal). Investment bankers work hard to provide the financial and strategic advice to clients, lead deals relating to M&A and financing, and work with other products groups within the bank to provide full-service advice and access to financial products.

When you entered your field, what would you say was the proportion of women/non-male-identifying individuals in comparison to males? Has there been any change since then?

When I began, women were few and far between. It was twofold too, because in addition to being in finance (male-dominated industry), I worked in oil and gas in Calgary (male-dominated sector). When I entered, many banks had no women within the investment banking group (teams of 5-30 people). Since then, there has been an industry transformation, as the industry prioritizes diversity globally. There is still a lot of work to be done – the pendulum swings both ways and will naturally overcorrect. Right now, banks are so eager for qualified women that this is one of the best times to go into the industry.

What was the biggest challenge you faced being a womxn in your respective field? What were some of the tricks you used to address and overcome these challenges?

I think one of my most frequent conversations with recent grads relates to women not being able to identify the apparent meaning behind male behaviors towards them. For example, this is quite evident when women are teased in front of a peer group. They are not sure if they should laugh along as they have been included in the group’s humor (i.e. men tease each other this way and therefore they are being included and treated as an equal), or if they are being made fun of (i.e. they are being excluded and treated as an outsider). This sounds like a minor occurrence, but it materializes in different ways that can have women feeling like they are on the outside because of their gender.

Now, before I give the advice here I need to state a big caveat: if you are being treated in a way that causes harm and makes the workplace a place where you cannot thrive and instead are simply trying to survive, that is not okay and you need to speak to someone you trust about it. When I talk to women, a lot of the conversation is about breakthrough moments to empowerment – which yes, involves stepping outside your comfort zone, or learning how to verbally joust, or growing a thicker skin. Empowerment comes from equipping yourself and learning to navigate situations. Empowerment does not come from a situation where you feel unable to be yourself. So to be clear, if you are unsure if this is a ‘learning how to affirm yourself’ moment or a ‘this could be the reason I need therapy later’ moment, please have someone you can talk to.

Okay, caveat understood, here are some thoughts – the advice I give so frequently is this: spend less time (and specifically mental energy) on being likable and spend more time and mental energy on being competent. Stop worrying if what you said sounded a certain way and don’t be concerned if someone teased you about something you said. I can tell you that the fastest way to get respect is to be good at the job, not by finding the most agreeable way to state your opinion. Focus first on being prepared, being up to speed, and identifying (then filling) weakness or gaps in knowledge. This industry is tough and serious and stressful, so people like to lighten the mood. When you know you are putting in the work, you can assume the teasing was in good nature. When you aren’t sure if you’re ‘good’ yet, focus on putting in the work, not on being likable. Don’t waste your mental energy analyzing what a comment meant; focus on doing the job and doing it well. Don’t let small comments define your experience, instead learn how to define your own experience and reframe the narrative.

On the other side, what has been the most rewarding experience you’ve had in your career? This can be specific to your position as a womxn in the field or just generally.

This job has been insanely rewarding. It brought me from a small Canadian suburb (I’m originally from St. Albert) to Wall Street. I can fully hold my own when the men talk business at family gatherings. People are always intrigued at what I do and the experiences I’ve had. I’ve worked on deals in multiple industries and countries and along the way have heard opinions of executives and major private equity firms. The industry is known for long hours and high stress and you simply learn how to deal with it, a skill that transfers to every area of life. I’m not scared off by circumstances I’m not informed on – I know I can figure it out. Banking teaches you how to figure it out. I know that if I end up in a position of leadership within a large company, or perhaps start my own, that I understand the basic underlying premise of what makes a business a business – How do you make money and where does it go? How do I raise money to start? How much is this worth? There are complicated topics that don’t scare me. Bankers try to do everything by ‘best practice’ so you learn industry best practices. I hope that the pipeline of qualified women continues to grow as women feel supported and see that this industry is one of the most direct routes into positions of influence. If you look at those with power and influence in society, a lot come from finance backgrounds (for example, Boards of Directors value finance backgrounds). The experience sets you up so well for whatever your future holds…not to mention it pays very well if you value financial freedom right out of school.

How do you think young womxn can prepare themselves for a career in a traditionally male-dominated field?

Position yourself – you may not know what you want to do. That’s perfect. That’s exactly normal. Let yourself explore. But along the way position yourself. Opportunities will always find good people. First, as said before, focus on being good (no matter what role you’re in). People are always looking to add good people to their team. Get the GPA, join the academic program, apply for the leadership role, start your own club, attend the event, follow-up on that email you didn’t get a reply on. And reach out to industry professionals. Talk to them – and not just about the professional side. Get comfortable hearing your own voice talk about what you studied and about what you read in the news. Too often women study for the A+, and then don’t feel ‘expert’ enough to engage in a conversation – get over that way of thinking. Engage in anything you’ve learned, then get corrected. It’s iterative but don’t shrink yourself along the way.

What are some tips for womxn who are straying away from male-dominated fields because they are nervous of the judgment they might face?

First, don’t let anyone scare you off. I heard many times that “this industry will not serve your potential” and I ignored it many times. I’m glad I did. Realize that it’s okay to have different identities in different contexts; we wear identities like hats on different occasions. Sometimes these identities are harmonious and sometimes they conflict (like previously when a woman wants to be a banker). Have it be okay to be both: gentle and bold, likeable and intense, feminine and masculine. I promise the industry can handle it, men can handle it. I’m blonde, smiley, and warm-natured. I’m very tactful and diplomatic and do not try to steamroll people to get my way. I’m also bull-headed, confident, and hyper-focused. People know that if something is urgent, I prioritize getting it done right over being likeable, and so they let me work and don’t focus on if I sounded blunt. I wear dresses to work because I like them and I don’t wear heels often because they hurt my feet. This is just my way. And I can tell you there is space for whatever your way is too.

What is one piece of advice you would go back and tell your university-self? Please include a career-specific piece as well as a general one.

Take your seat at the table. Don’t wait to be invited, the seat is there. Don’t knock someone off of theirs so that you can take it. There is balance here. No seats? Build a bigger table.

Don’t worry so much about making the perfect ‘right decision’. You are not marrying your choices. Successful people have all kinds of backgrounds. Just position yourself.

I’d also probably let myself know it’s okay to get really involved and then graduate and focus only on work for a bit. Those are the formative years of your career. Focus on becoming good, and then add back the activities that energize you. You don’t need to do everything all at once, big endeavors involve big focus. There will be time to add back what matters to you.

Lindsay Jones is an M&A Investment Banking Associate at Scotiabank, currently based in New York City. She transitioned from Energy Investment Banking in Calgary to her current role where she covers a wide variety of industries and jurisdictions in Latin America, working with corporate clients in the evaluation of merger and acquisition (M&A) opportunities. She received a bachelor’s degree in Finance (with distinction) from the University of Calgary, graduating in the top ~1% of her business class. She continues to stay involved in her community where she commits to championing support for women in finance. Lindsay grew her personal efforts into a small mentorship program for women, then sought partnership with her bank to scale that program nation-wide, rolling out the “Scotiabank Rising Leaders Mentorship Program” across five universities. She is now working with the bank to expand the program to the United States. The program aims to support and develop women interested in finance while connecting them to a network of mentors and a cohort of like-minded women. Lindsay has also been involved, for over eight years, with L’Arche, an international organization that supports individuals with developmental disabilities. She has personally raised ~$28,000 for L’Arche and most recently joined the Board of Directors as its youngest board member. Lindsay also loves to travel and hike, visiting over 20 countries to date. Her favourite treks include Mt. Everest Base Camp and Mt. Kilimanjaro with her eyes set on climbing the tallest mountain on each of the remaining continents.